Presented here are the emails sent between myself and David Sadler, Congressional Candidate. They are organized in order from most recent back to first. You will see in these emails the inclusion by Mr. Sadler of Tom VanFlandern. They are presented to show the attitude of certain individuals towards our work and to provide complete disclosure. Please forgive all of the html symbols and extra stuff. I did not want to alter it at all.

Last email, sent from myself to Mr. Sadler:

Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:23:22 -0700
To: "David Sadler" <> From: Goodwin <>
Subject: Re: MARS: Phobos
you said:
"I'm sorry I don't have the time to take you up on your "challenge." No one is calling you a liar or a conspiracy nut. The real challenge now is to you to prove what you have declared to be a fact. You must now produce letters and/or emails along with their replies from people inside these observatories showing that you requested but failed to receive the images from last year that would prove your declaration true."

Dear Mr. Sadler,
I "must" do nothing! We have put out the proof that we have put out. We have numerous images that "prove" that there are at least two large (5 and ten mile range) objects currently in orbit around the earth and/or moon. These numerous images are our proof. You and Mr. Van Flandern have only produced one extremely poor shot of Phobos, which I absolutely deny is Phobos and a shadow on the face of Mars that you say is Phobos. The information is NOT as "good as he can provide. He has, according to his own words and YOUR support, plenty of contacts inside NASA to simply produce dozens of Hubble shots, Mars mapper shots or whatever satellite he desires or Phobos in place around mars. He with all of his friends and contacts at NASA and you ask me for proof of simple emails????? Now i am very paranoid. You ask for something that ludicrous when you have the great resource Tom Van Flandern at your bequest. Again, we have proven what we have proven. If what we have on the page is not enough for you, then i apologize. I am simply too busy this instant to rifle through hundreds, if not thousands of emails just to satisfy you or the skeptic Van Flandern. With one email and his contacts, why is it that he cannot produce a half dozen current images of Phobos and shut us up????? Again, I MUST prove nothing. Yourself and your friend Mr. Van Flandern appear to be attempting to occupy my time and waste it. When you or your friend get the images, bring them to us and I'll post them. I'm not asking for much to believe that Phobos is still there. It is very simple, produce the photo, a half dozen, taken this year, and I'll post them with a comment and a retraction. A retraction if they fit the bill. Shouldn't be to hard for him to acquire. I know they want us to shut up - so let THEM produce the images! Please waste no more of my time,
gary d. goodwin

Mr. Goodwin,
I will not bother Dr. Van Flandern further on this issue. I believe the information he has provided is as good as he can provide on the matter.
- Can you provide me with a copy of the emails or letters you presented to U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington, DC and in Flagstaff requesting the photos taken of the Mars moons in 2001?
- Can you also supply me with their replies? - Did you send your emails and or letters under your name? - If not, what name did you send them under? - Who did you send them to at each facility? - Do you have their phone numbers with extensions handy? - Did you search the MGS archives for images taken last year of the surface of Mars showing the shadow of either moon on the surface? See the attached jpg provided by Dr. Van Flandern.
It is my impression that you are as frustrated as I and many others are with our nation's space efforts. But see the dilemma we are in.
You have taken a major leap to suggest the moons are no longer in their orbits around Mars without providing a showing of due diligence in the search for images. Perhaps copies of letters and emails you sent to the named observatories will help provide evidence of such effort.
I'm sorry I don't have the time to take you up on your "challenge." No one is calling you a liar or a conspiracy nut. The real challenge now is to you to prove what you have declared to be a fact. You must now produce letters and/or emails along with their replies from people inside these observatories showing that you requested but failed to receive the images from last year that would prove your declaration true. Until then, most people are going to take the image at and the Hubble image attached as evidence against your assertions. You will need to contact Dr. Van Flandern for the reference ID of the Hubble image.
America has many challenges at the moment, some that threaten the very existence of our constitutional republic.
Check this site out. Regards,
David Sadler----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: "David Sadler" <> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: MARS: Phobos>Mr. Sadler,
>Sorry to say but we have already contacted a number of big observatories, including the ones named. The historical event of Mars being closer to the earth than in so many years, should have produced many many photos for the public of the moons of Mars. Van Flandern states correctly that amateurs have an almost impossible time of photographing Phobos and Deimos. But
>he and now you ignore our challenge. The ownus is not on us, we have
>tasted the bitter water. So we are hoaxers, we are in essence nuts,
>idiots, etc.. Write us off. I am certainly through with ignorance and the lies. Blustering? You haven't seen blustering yet. Spending millions of tax payor dollars while social ills cripple our nation! There's nothing proprietary about what's going on here. It's plain and simple. It's theft and lies. Please no more emails to or from mr. Van Flandern. It's already wasted too much of my time.
>gary d. goodwin
>p.s. I would much rather be called a conspiracy nut than a coward and a liar, which the air seems to be full of. The truth WILL win in the end.
>>-- Original Message --
>>From: "David Sadler" <> To: <>
>>Subject: Re: MARS: Phobos
>>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:08:18 -0500
>>Mr. Goodwin,
>>I have to agree with Dr. Van Flandern. Perhaps you could check with the observatories that he recommends to acquire the needed images. Best of
>>to you. Keep searching and keep asking questions. Don't let the 'nut' label prevent you from searching for answers. "Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held its ground." Dr. Van Flandern's reply to you follows.
>>David Sadler
>>"> [Goodwin]: if it is as Van Flandern states, there should be plenty of images of Phobos around currently by amateur astronomers.
>>This betrays ignorance of the extreme difficulty of photographing
>>tiny target in the close vicinity of a light source a million times
>>(Mars). This feat is far outside the possibilities for most amateur telescopes even under the most favorable conditions. It took a 26-inch telescope (at the U.S. Naval Observatory) and a very experienced observer (Asoph Hall) to discover that the moons existed in the first place (in 1876).
>>I suggest challenging Mr. Goodwin to produce any photo of the
>>moons taken by an amateur astronomer with a small or medium-sized
>>prior to their "disappearance". Such photos must be so rare as to be
>>non-existent. The orbital work on these moons is mostly done from photos taken with the 61-inch astrometric telescope in Flagstaff, AZ, a few
>>time Mars comes to opposition (close to Earth) about every 2.2 years. No NASA finds, direct or indirect, are involved in these efforts, which
>>produce a handful of images at every opposition.
>>If Mr. Goodwin contacted the U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington, DC
>>or in Flagstaff, he could learn how many Mars images showing the moons
>>taken during the last opposition. Wouldn't that be more constructive than blustering, accusing everyone with contrary information of participating in
>>a conspiracy, and risking to continue spreading hoax information? Or has Mr.
>>Goodwin reached the point where he wouldn't believe anyone with contrary evidence?"
>>-- Dr. Tom Van Flandern --
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <>
>>To: "David Sadler" <> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 1:23 PM
>>Subject: Re: MARS: Phobos
>>>Mr. Sadler,
>>>Thank you for the respect. You are separating the issues of the article - alright lets go with it. Your agenda is, granted different in some
>>>You may not recall the difficulty we had in getting HST images of Hale
>>>in fact there are to this day only one or two high definition photos
>>>HB by HST available. They promised us that they would give them up
>>>the year propriety. Well... here we are, still waiting. Please
>>>the source of my anger. Now as to Mr. Van Flandern. Perhaps you know
>>>better than I. All I have to go on are his writings and a few emails.
>>>in those few contacts I have found him to be of questionable character. Sorry to say that, but that's my opinion. Now as to the photos of
>>>THe answer to your question as to whether there have been photos of
>>>- absolutely 100% the answer is NO. We have looked high and low, put
>>>a challenge - but nothing. Silence from NASA. Silence from the amateur
>>>And the images of Brun - I say "Frauds." First of all, he is another
>>>character. I know how I sound - "conspiracy! conspiracy! conspiracy!"
>>>you can believe this or not - I am not a nut nor am I mentally ill. In
>>>I would be happy to share privately with you the results of a recent
>>>I took in regards to a career matter. No paranoia, no delusions, no
>>>Just some depression. I wonder why?(rhetorical!). And it's just not me. You cited a reference to a fellow - Harp? I believe? Then there are a
>>>of us at TMG that have very strong feelings about the secrecy of the
>>>machine. And apparently you have some doubts too? If they relinquish
>>>information as you have requested, I doubt that it will be an honest
>>>But no PHOBOS/DEIMOS images - anywhere. I made a mistake about Bruns'
>>>- it's a nine inch (how many ninie inch and larger scopes are out there in the public?). He uses the same software to process his images that I use. He states four 20 second exposures of Phobos. I'll let you
>>>out how far Phobos moves in 80 seconds. Why isn't it streaked? Why does the speck he claims is Phobos reflect light? Did you know that Phobos
>>>Deimos are dozens of times less reflective than even our own moon? Then why does it appear the size it does? It should appear as a pinpoint at
>>>You might like to restrict this story just to the presence of Phobos,
>>>that's fine. But believe me this is a much larger story than just the
>>>of Mars.
>>>Thank you for your interest,
>>>>-- Original Message --
>>>>From: "David Sadler" <> To: <>
>>>>Subject: Re: MARS: Phobos
>>>>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:34:27 -0500
>>>>Dear Mr. Goodwin,
>>>>I am forwarding your reply to Dr. Van Flandern for his reply.
>>>>The entire article need not be considered to prove or disprove the
>>>>question being, "Are the Mars moons still in Mars orbit?" This is a
>>>>matter that can be resolved by showing photos of the Moons in orbit
>>>>last year. Those who say such photos are themselves hoaxes have the
>>>>of proving the photos fake.
>>>>Since this is out of my area to provide such proof, I will leave it
>>>>astronomers to provide the evidence.
>>>>I trust Dr. Van Flandern. He has demonstrated his professionalism as
>>>>astronomer. He has also demonstrated his ability and willingness to
>>>>outside the box, risking his career and reputation on legitimate but unconventional theories and observations.
>>>>Let's see what photo evidence surfaces and let the cards fall where
>>>>My interest in this is to gain, for the public, access to real-time
>>>>mission space data from NASA, including TV, data streams and
>>>>telemetry. Any delay between acquisition and dissemination is
>>>>and unacceptable.
>>>>This access will put an end to the need to engage in conspiracy
>>>>regarding suppressed and altered space data regarding suspected
>>>>the solar system.
>>>>I do not intend any harm to TMG. I only intend to help verify or
>>>>the main claim concerning the moons of Mars.
>>>>Are you saying you can not find a single image of the Mars moons from
>>>>year's close Earth approach from any source, be it, amateur,
>>>>NASA or any other group or individual? Will you not accept Hubble
>>>>and earth based observatory images?
>>>>David Sadler
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: <>
>>>>To: "David Sadler" <> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:03 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: MARS: Phobos
>>>>>Dear Mr. Sadler,
>>>>>Thank you for giving us an opportunity to defend ourselves. Let me
>>>>>say that I take great exception to Mr. Van Flandern's statement that
>>>>>have perpetrated a hoax or that we have been a part of a hoax. It
>>>>>that he has learned well from his days in the employment of NASA.
>>>>>their favorite tactics is to bunch everyone that opposes their
>>>>>together and then to slander them all. WE HAVE NOT ATTEMPTED TO
>>>>>AN INTERNET HOAX. Let me take my stab at the technique - Mr. Van
>>>>>appears to still be on the payroll at NASA. On to the subject at
>>>>>One aspect of the article has been pointed to and the rest thrown
>>>>>first the Phobos issue. "Dr." Donald Bruns, in other words - Stellar
>>>>>is an associate of Malin and Hawaii's NASA machine. It is my
>>>>>that he has provided or designed adaptive optics for AMOS and works
>>>>>with my old friends from the UofH - the ones that ran the scam on
>>>>>Courtney Brown and Prudence Calabrese. But if it is as Van Flandern
>>>>>there should be plenty of images of Phobos around currently by
>>>>>Bruns took his shots as he states with a common "10 inch
>>>>>and CCD camera. As a matter of fact, I own a Celestron 11" inch with
>>>>>good CCD camera and couldn't capture it - probably due to the fact
>>>>>I am a very amateur astronomer! But as Van Flandern suggested Mars was in the news and very popular last summer because it got so close
>>>>>the earth, closer
>>>>>than in many many years. Everyone (amateur astronomers) were taking
>>>>>of the red planet. So on that basis, I would think that there would
>>>>>been literally 100's of Phobos images. Where are they? Van Flandern
>>>>>one very poor example and expects us to drop the claim? Sorry I'm
>>>>>percent convinced that Brun's images are true and faithful! Nor am
>>>>>by MSSS' shadow on the face of mars (sorry about the pun! It's been
>>>>>bane to disprove the Cydonia theory).
>>>>>But regardless of all of that. Even if we were willing to accept
>>>>>is still in orbit around Mars, and it may very well be, I challenge
>>>>>Van Flandern to look at the rest of the article. Look at the images.
>>>>>at the strong host of myth, and then explain or "debunk". We're not
>>>>>to lead the world astray, I assure you Mr. Van Flandern. We want
>>>>>And we want accountability to the billions of tax dollars spent in
>>>>>of space exploration. I believe it was said that taxation without
>>>>>was one reason to take up arms against the tryanny that existed in
>>>>>What shall we say today? Anything less? Van Flandern sets atop the
>>>>>wanting the respect of his corrupt and distorted peers, meanwhile
>>>>>the tug of heartstrings that tell him there is another truth. The
>>>>>All we are asking is to allow us the same privilidge - give our
>>>>>observations equal opportunity. Read the story at the end of the article - the one about the Tongan sailor. There is
>>>>>Again, thank you for the opportunity. Perhaps an organized forum
>>>>>the place to debate these issues??? gary d. goodwin
>>>>>>-- Original Message --
>>>>>>From: "David Sadler" <> To: "Steve Wingate" <>,
>>>>>>Subject: Re: MARS: Phobos
>>>>>>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:45:44 -0500
>>>>>>It certainly was not my intention to embarrass you. There was
>>>>>>personal in this and I don't think Dr. Van Flandern took it that
>>>>>>appreciate your posts and hope that you will continue to provide
>>>>>>your informative contributions. I know I look forward to reading
>>>>>>Strange things happen. Many are so easy to verify, but no attempt
>>>>>>to verify. This is why I constantly harp on getting to the
>>>>>>prying it loose from those who confiscate it and then making it
>>>>>>the public. This one happened to deal with space science. We have
>>>>>>going on in Oklahoma City right now dealing with the destruction
>>>>>>Murrah Federal building. Somewhere around twelve security video
>>>>>>confiscated by the FBI and have never been seen by the public.
>>>>>>eyewitness testimony that was not admitted during any of the trials
>>>>>>McVeigh or Nichols or even to the grand jury, as well as testimony
>>>>>>agents who have seen one or more of the tapes, the tapes will show
>>>>>>individuals getting out of the Ryder truck -- one McVeigh and the
>>>>>>being the Middle Eastern man known as 'John Doe #2.' The Justice
>>>>>>is controlling access to the evidence which would lead to a totally different 'truth' about the Oklahoma City bombing.
>>>>>>OKC security video tapes are so easy to verify if only the evidence
>>>>>>made available by the DoJ/FBI. What are they hiding? They tell
>>>>>>we have nothing to hide, we have nothing to fear so they read our
>>>>>>our phone conversations, probe our financial transactions and enter
>>>>>>homes, cars and businesses now without a warrant (USA Patriot Act
>>>>>>213). But the DoJ/FBI are adamant about OKC. They will not
>>>>>>video tapes and they refuse to allow their own FBI agents to
>>>>>>regarding the reality of John Doe #2. What is the DoJ/FBI hiding?
>>>>>>In this regard, "Seeing Red" by Alton Harp is an excellent example
>>>>>>the world observatories are controlled by those who share a special
>>>>>>in seeing the currently accepted big bang / evolution paradigm go unchallenged. Harp presents overwhelming observational evidence
>>>>>>easily reproduced and verified by anyone with access to a world
>>>>>>observatory capable of resolving in a variety of spectrums. These
>>>>>>galaxy/quasar assemblies cited by Harp disprove the primary big
>>>>>>argument based on using red shift as a means of measuring distance,
>>>>>>and age of quasars. Dr. Van Flandern spoke about observatory time,
>>>>>>showcases the politics and scientific dishonesty that surrounds the allocation of observatory time depending upon which theory it is
>>>>>>applicant wishes to test.
>>>>>>Quasars are so easy to verify technically, but so difficult to test politically ... What a shame.
>>>>>>I simply wanted to verify the claims made by and
>>>>>>THE MILLENNIUM GROUP. Their claims were too easy to have verified
>>>>>>claims of such magnitude to go unchallenged. Hopefully, Dr. Van
>>>>>>reply will be distributed far and wide so that we might refocus and concentrate on the very bizarre paradigm busting observations being
>>>>>>needing verification, not only on the Earth's moon and Mars, but
>>>>>>on Earth.
>>>>>>In the spirit of fair play, I am including the Millennium Group on
>>>>>>mailing so that they might have a chance to respond.
>>>>>>David Sadler
>>>>>>GOP Congressional candidate, 12th CD/IL
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Steve Wingate" <> To: <>
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:35 AM Subject: Re: MARS: Phobos
>>>>>>>-> Mars Updates Mailing List
>>>>>>>I will be more careful when someone asks for information and I
>>>>>>>post what I can come up with, all just trying to help. It was
>>>>>>>to have my name attached to a post that was sent to Dr. Van
>>>>>>will be
>>>>>>>extremely careful what I post here in the future, if I post
>>>>>>>On 1 May 2002 at 14:17, David Sadler wrote:
>>>>>>>>-> Mars Updates Mailing List
>>>>>>>>"... when Mars was last close to Earth last June [2001], the
>>>>>>>>within range of smaller telescopes, and were routinely observed
>>>>>>>>the spring and summer months, at least through the end of July
>>>>>>>>-- Tom Van Flandern --
>>>>>>>>Repost and distribute. See below...
>>>>>>>>David Sadler
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: Tom Van Flandern
>>>>>>>>To: 'David Sadler'
>>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 12:26 PM Subject: RE: MARS: Phobos
>>>>>>>><snip> ... the moons of Mars are too faint to be seen by any
>>>>>>>>largest telescopes except when they are close to Earth. And
>>>>>>>>telescopes are fully booked with work that does not include
>>>>>>>>to make sure that all the solar system's moons are still in
>>>>>>>>However, when Mars was last close to Earth last June, the moons
>>>>>>>>range of smaller telescopes, and were routinely observed
>>>>>>>>spring and summer months, at least through the end of July.
>>>>>>>>example, a 2001 July 28 image at
>>>>>>>>The Internet hoax that the moons had disappeared began well
>>>>>>>>image, and is therefore proved false as far as I am concerned.
>>>>>>>>>- "comet 76P has never been re-acquired after its encounter
>>>>>>>>That comet passed four million kilometers from Mars, about ten
>>>>>>>>distance from Earth to the Moon. That is an unremarkable
>>>>>>>>have a listing of what observations were acquired when. But
>>>>>>>>non-periodic comets have a date after which they are "never
>>>>>>>>when they get too faint for normal telescopes to see them.
>>>>>>>>I can tell you that no observations were attempted that
>>>>>>>>the comet but failed. That would have led to an alert to the
>>>>>>>>Bureau and a message to the world's observatories to check and
>>>>>>>>something had or had not happened to the comet. Because comets
>>>>>>>>split, if this one had disappeared unexpectedly, that would
>>>>>>>>high-interest event to astronomers. But there was no such
>>>>>>>>- "the last image of Phobos in orbit around Mars was from MSSS
>>>>>>>>to be on August 19th, 1998"
>>>>>>>>The most recent Earth-based image I know about was at the above
>>>>>>>>is the last time such observations were possible except under
>>>>>>>>circumstances. Sometime around late 1998, the MGS spacecraft
>>>>>>>>camera straight down at Mars and began its official mapping
>>>>>>>>subsequently photographed the shadow of Phobos crossing Mars
>>>>>>>>but understandably did not see the moon directly because it was
>>>>>>>>looking down at Mars. See for example the attached image
>>>>>>>>month at the MSSS web site.
>>>>>>>>Regrettably, Internet hoaxes are now quite common, and they
>>>>>>>>credibility of all scientists. They work so well because so
>>>>>>>>tend to believe something claimed with "authority" rather than
>>>>>>>>judgment until it can be checked out. Those who buy into the
>>>>>>>>become the hoaxer's unwitting allies, and will fiercely resist
>>>>>>>>that might show they had been duped. The result is that these
>>>>>>>>all over the world and get far more attention than they should.
>>>>>>>>You, at least, thought to write someone and ask. Best
>>>>ishes. -|Tom|-
>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>From: David Sadler [] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 12:21 PM
>>>>>>>>To: Tom Van Flandern
>>>>>>>>Subject: Fw: MARS: Phobos
>>>>>>>>Mr. Tom Van Flandern:
>>>>>>>>I am sorry to bother you with this, but it seems so easy to
>>>>>>>>had an observatory. I mention this only because Mars has
>>>>>>>>interesting place. I have followed your work on Mars over the
>>>>>>>>This is going around the Internet that the Mars moons are no
>>>>>>>>around Mars. Can you confirm that Phobos and Deimos are still
>>>>>>>>>From the link above:
>>>>>>>>- "comet 76P has never been re-acquired after its encounter
>>>>>>>>- "the last image of Phobos in orbit around Mars was from MSSS
>>>>>>>>to be on August 19th, 1998"
>>>>>>>>I find the last statement very difficult to believe. Can you
>>>>>>>>David Sadler
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "Steve Wingate" <> To: "IUFO NEWS" <>; "Anomalous Images" <>; "Mars Updates"
>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 2:32 PM Subject: RE: MARS: Phobos
>>>>>>>>>-> Mars Updates Mailing List
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>>>>>>>>-> To unsubscribe send email to
>>>>>>>"In little more than a year we have gone from enjoying peace and the most prosperous economy in our history, to a nation plunged into war, recession and fear. This is a nation being transformed before our very eyes."
>>>>>>>Steve Wingate, Webmaster